Abortions in NZ are considered as being available on grounds of physical or mental health only. We all know that is a farce, but the effect of it is that these authorised killings are paid for by taxpayer; many of whom find the act of killing the unborn as objectionable as killing the born, and would find your comparison of an unborn child to a tapeworm as repugnant.

I don't believe there will ever be abortion on demand in NZ, because Chadwick and her fellow travellers will sooner or later wake up to the fact that if there was that would make it elective surgery which is not covered by the taxpayer. In such a case abortion numbers would fall because women would have to pay for it themselves.

That is the third question you did not ask yourself Chris. If the authority to determine this is to be delegated to the woman herself; On what grounds do other people have to pay for that choice?

Abortion murders a human. That's an indisputable scientific fact. Since the unborn is a human, it deserves regard as a human and an amount of protection to go with it, no individual rights should completely override those of another. Very few people, women & men, completely support unrestricted abortion-on-demand laws, only extremist organisations like ALRANZ advocate for them.

Ash I can only really repeat myself. You see no difference between a 9-week-old foetus and a toddler or a 12-week-old foetus and a person in the street. I - and many, many other people - do see a difference. You don't seem to understand that people don't think the same way you do.

I do not consider an abortion to be the same as "knock(ing a) child out, and euthanis(ing) it" or someone being murdered in the street. You seem to think it's the same thing.

I don't see pregnancy or having a baby as a punishment. I would be deeply concerned about the welfare of a child if it was put on this Earth simply to punish it's mother. That is a very worrying viewpoint in my opinion.

Babies born in the world should be wanted in my opinion. We may disagree on that.

Condoms are very, very effective if they are used properly. A lot of the time they are not used properly - hence women getting pregnant. Do you think men should be punished for getting a woman pregnant? Or is it just the women you think should be punished? With a child.

I think ultimately we should honour babies and not use them as a tool to punish people for unprotected sex. Babies shouldn't be treated as a "consequence" they should be adored and desperately wanted. Again - that's my opinion. Yours obviously differs.

You say "Women are not always smart enough to know what to do with their own bodies" - I don't agree. Do you think men are smart enough to know what to do with their own bodies?

Also have you told your friends that you think they are murderers for having abortions?

Kate -Because something doesn't feel pain, or is unconscious, does that mean that its o.k. to kill it? So my child is a nuisance and is getting in the way of my career - So I knock the child out, and euthanise it? Saying that I am putting the unborn babies life above the mothers is also not true, In any year in Nz 89-99% of abortions are loosely defined as being done because of a threat to the mothers *mental* health,(And knowing how many of my own friends have had an abortion who would be perfectly capable, mentally and physically to have a baby and who would have the means to support it I know this term is loosely defined)not her physical health/her life. i think that if it is a life/death situation the mother should definitely have the choice as to what happens. I agree with you about the women deciding whether she becomes a mother or not, but i think that needs to happen before she has sex not afterwards. There are plenty of steps you can take before you have sex to not get pregnant. And yes, condoms break, but they are found to be around 98% effective, meaning only 2% of the time they don't work. And even then you have to be in the right part of your cycle to get pregnant. Women are not always smart enough to know what to do with their own bodies (and in this case it is not just their own, it is the babies as well) because if they were, they probably wouldn't have gotten pregnant in the first place?

I think our society has got to a place where we want whatever we want whenever we want without consequences. Pregnancy is the consequence of sex, ( without contraception) and if you put yourself in that place then I think you should face the consequences. And they're not necessarily that bad. Having a baby could be and incredible experience and being a mother is very very rewarding.

I think it's a bit dismissive of all of my arguments to just say that because I wouldn't do something doesn't mean I should force other people to copy me. I don't think that other people should not have an abortion because I wouldn't, I think that other people shouldn't have an abortion because I believe that it is a life they are destroying. If you saw someone being murdered in the street would you try to intervene? Same principle applies here. I see something happening that is wrong, so I try to do something about it. I'm not attacking - i am trying to defend and protect, and I'm sorry that you see it that way.

Ash - You see a foetus and baby as the same thing. Other people don't. It's as simple as that. Foetuses don't feel pain up to 24 weeks. The Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists (RCOG), also said the foetus was in a state of "continuous sleep-like unconsciousness or sedation" even after 24 weeks. It's fine that you believe that a baby and a foetus are the same thing but you're in a minority believing that. Science doesn't back up your assertion. You shouldn't force your beliefs on somebody else. People who are pro-choice do value life Ash. They believe that there are two lives at stake - the MOTHER'S and the foetuses. As a pro-choice person I believe that a mother is the best person to make a decision on whether she should be pregnant or not. He life isn't important. I would ask you why you think her life is not important. Why do you think she should have to die for the foetus to survive. Death through pregnancy, birth, suicide or illegal unsafe abortion are all likely if you ban abortion.

You cannot possibly say what you would do if you were raped and became pregnant. Please show some compassion for rape survivors. Don't force your beliefs on women who have already been violated. You have no idea how many women are raped and become pregnant from that rape so please don't pretend that you do to suit your argument.

I'm sorry to say it but you are being judgemental. It's not your choice. Women are smart enough to make their own decisions when it comes to their bodies. You don't have to have an abortion so don't have one. But please don't attack women because they have different beliefs to you. Maybe you should talk to some Rape Crisis staff or women at Family Planning staff so you can get a better understanding of why most women support choice. You can be anti-abortion and pro-choice Ash. Just because you wouldn't have an abortion it doesn't mean you should force pregnancy on other women.

Womens choice? The word choice makes it seem so trivial. It is not just getting rid of an inconvenience, #22 - yes some one dies every time someone has an abortion? Why does that not register with you? Why is it ok to kill a baby when it's inside a womans tummy but as soon as it is born its suddenly not ok? What makes the difference? because it looks more human like and cute, suddenly it's not ok anymore? What is the actual difference between child murder and abortion anyway? they both feel pain, they both are going to be humans if you let them! life is precious. And why does everyone assume you have to be a Christian to be against abortion? Why does no one value life anymore. I would rather see a child that is adopted out into a loving family that desperately wants a child than see a child murdered.

If I was raped, and became pregnant, I would have the baby. If I couldn't handle looking after it, I would adopt it out. I know that that is easy to say now, because I haven't been raped and I'm not pregnant, but people always use this as an excuse for making abortions legal, but only a very few women who are raped become pregnant because of it.

I'm not being judgmental (Jeff comment #35) I'm just sad that we don't see a baby as just that - a baby, Hell if I was pregnant I'm sure I would freak out, and I have not Idea how I would look after a baby, I would be frightened I wouldn't want my parents to know, I wouldn't know who to turn to, but I desperately hope that in that situation I would do my best to keep that baby alive.

Labour's weird politicians usually wait until they have gained the reins of power before trying to introduce their digusting policies. Goff still has lowering the age of consent, and dilution of the incest laws in the background. Look at the record: Homosexual Law Reform, Legalised Prostitution, Civil Unions, how putrid. Anyone supporting a party capable of this is sick.

You people have never had a pregnancy scare? Or accidentally got pregnant? You've never had a friend that has happened to?

Condoms do break - you don't know how old a condom is, or if it's been in a pocket and broken. The pill isn't reliable at all. If you have medication it can interfere with it. If you forget to take it then it might not work. Rapid weight loss or gain can stop contraceptions working. The IUD is generally not given to young women as are other methods of contraception because doctors worry they can cause sterility issues. There are heaps of reasons why contraception fails. Even the injection fails! And has massive long-term impacts on a woman's fertility.

Stop being so judgemental and get off your high horse. The religious right is far to vocal in this country - they need to stop abusing women and trust them with their own choices. Basically they see getting pregnant as a punishment for having sex outside of marriage. What an awful way to view women and the world.

I'll get ignored and ridiculed simply for being male, I know, but want to comment. Everything should be done to make abortion as available as possible. As a single 28yo male finding a single woman without a child is near on impossible. I want a relationship but taking on that sort of responsibility is a huge ask right from the start. And if I do have children in my life, I would like them to be biologically mine. Call that selfish if you like, I don't mind.

None of these young women regret having children. But a significant majority do regret not having waited until they were older/more mature/in a stable relationship to have them. If abortion were more openly available it may help them to make better life choices.

And as a side argument - I know whether to abort or not is entirely the woman's own call, ok. But if she decides to continue with the pregnancy against the wishes of the father of the child, or even without his knowledge, he should be absolved of all and any further compulsory responsibility toward that child. She is knowingly making that decision on her own.

A woman's right to choose? How about... choose not to have unprotected sex?

Has anyone looked at the stats.govt.nz website? Very informative statistics on abortions in New Zealand. The picture I got was that, perhaps not surprisingly, it's a matter of the inconvenience a baby would create in these women's lives. According to the stats, the majority of abortions in NZ are performed on women of European ethnicity aged 20-29 years old.

Surely at age 20 a woman should know the consequences of unprotected sex? So why is this group of women getting pregnant when they don't want a baby? I'm of that age and ethnic group, and I can tell you that for these women- it's not a lack of access to affordable contraception, it's not a lack of education on the subject, it's not rape, and it's not a matter of a broken condom. It's the knowledge that they can always have it "taken care of".

Perhaps most telling is this statistic: "In any year, 98–99 percent of all abortions are performed because of serious danger to the mental health of the woman." These women aren't having the babies killed because they lack the resources to take care of them (if that were the case, they would simply carry the baby and allow a couple in-need to adopt), but rather because they can't be bothered. According to law, their has to be a reason for the termination, it appears that this is the easiest box for doctors to tick. Why not make sterilisation via injection mandatory for 10 years after any abortion given to a woman (unless rape was the cause of it or the woman is in physical danger by carrying the child)? That seems safest for everyone, including the mothers who would be "in serious danger emotionally" should they carry their babies to term.