Churches call for moral stand

I think what so many forget is that "the church" is the people who actively follow the moral teaching of the Lord Jesus Christ. Don't get caught up in denominational differences. It is quite simple, man was made first, woman was made for him so together, they could enjoy marriage, procreate and raise a family who follow the moral guidelines laid down for them - boundaries which meant that you treat the other fellow in a way you'd like him to treat you and also giving loving respect and worship to our creator. We would not need to be discussing abortion etc. if we (the human race) had not strayed so far from the safety of the pattern laid down for us by the Lord. If you have small children, you will recognise the tendency we all have of saying "not me" "not my fault" and not being accountable. We are accountable for what we do - abortion is murder and there are consequences, just as there are in all other forms of aberrant behaviour. Stable marriages, loving families, safe communities these are possible if we but recognise the loving boundaries laid down to work within. This won't be a popular message - no one likes to think that they could possibly have "sin" laid at their feet - again it is all about accountability and repenting, asking for forgiveness and then living in a way that can make a difference to our beautiful country - NZ.

I'm sad to say to you all that Christianity (not religion) does have a place in politics. Not so much in a moral sense as this article has stressed, but as a prophetic voice. Who do you think it was that forced the abolition of the slave trade and then ultimately slavery? Who do you think it was who instituted hospitals? Who was it that insisted free education for all, not just education for the elite? These things have nothing to do with abortion, euthanasia, stem-cell research, and same-sex adoptions. The churches role in politics is to both have good sensible Christians in the political parties (I'm opposed to specific Christian Parties), and also as the largest social services provider next to the govt we have to be the voice for the vulnerable.

It is bizzare that all people want to talk about is the Church's opposition to abortion and their position on same sex adoptions when it is about once sentence in the in the whole article. Stop trying to place religious people on some bizarre political spectrum you have invented.

You forget that it is churches that also give their support to refugees, have criticised the government for doing little to allieviate child poverty and for our minimal contribution to foreign aid and attacking our obsession with longer sentences for criminals. That sounds like pretty progressive, compassionate politics to me formed by honest convictions to me. Its also backed up by action: Catholic social services and the Salvation Army are acknowledged within the Ministry of Social Development for the success of their projects in working with the poor and dealing with social deprivation. Other faith based organisations like Prison Fellowship run the most significant conference each year on the Justice and Prison system in new zealand. Not all christians are simply loud moralising rightwingers.

Hello I am Nathan Ngatai, aged 15 still going to school. And I wish to reply your comment.

1) The churches in many nations were the first form of government, they setted up the first schools, and banks and so on, therefore chistianity has had a large effect on communities and countries like New Zealand.

You stated that "The churches should keep their noses out of politics" by not allowing christian people to have input to the law making of their own country you would find that you would be in many breachs of the laws of New Zealand.

For example the: "Human Rights Act 1993, No 82, Part 2 Unlawful discrimination, section 21: Prohibited grounds of discrimination, 1(c) religious beliefs, 1(j) political opinion, which includes the lack of a particular political opinion or any political opinion."

"The New Zealand Bill of Rights Act 1990, No 109, Part 2, Civil and political rights; life and security of the person; Section 13: Freedom of thought, conscience, and religion. Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience, religion, and belief, including the right to adopt and to hold opinions without interference; Section 14: Freedom of expression. Everyone has the right to freedom of expression, including the freedom to seek, receive, and impart information and opinions of any kind in any form; Section 15: Manifestation of religion and belief. Every person has the right to manifest that person's religion or belief in worship, observance, practice, or teaching, either individually or in community with others, and either in public or in private; Section 16: Freedom of peaceful assembly. Everyone has the right to freedom of peaceful assembly. AND Section 17: Freedom of association. Everyone has the right to freedom of association.

Also you would be in breach of the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child. The rights you would be in breach of are the same breach in the Human Rights Act, and the Bill Rights Act.

So by the statement that you made (The bishops have highlighted issues such as abortion, embryonic stem-cell research, euthanasia and same-sex adoptions, all of which the Catholic Church opposes.) does that mean that you allow 18000 incosent babies to be murdered each year by their own mothers the law states that an abortion can only take place if not having one would would endanger the mothers life, in most cases its not. And that you also allow children to be bulyed and laught at because there parents are both males or females, does it mean that you also allow young children to not have a mother or father in their lives, does also also mean that you allow euthanasia. Bacause these are not just issues that the Catholic Church apposes most other people of other faiths do and also people who don't believe in any one faith.

Your statement (We elect politicians to run the country.) Yes we do elect politicians to run the country but are they doing a good job, I don't thing so do you. The next statemnt you made (and these damn sin-killers need to pull their heads in and mind their own business!) if you do not say sorry I will contact the Human Rights Commission I as a christian have done nothing wrong to you and I find your comment hurtful. And as I have already told you by saying christian should mind their own bussiness you would be in breach of the many laws I have stated above.

Yours faithfully

Nathan James Ngatai Please fell free to contactt me @ nathan_ngatai@yahoo.co.nz.

So, Malcolm, how much choice would we have if your version of morality was law?

Wow! What an intelligent response. Did you put that together yourself?

i tottally agree with you,

i am a proud young catholic who strongly supports gay marriage, adoptions and many other things that the catholic church might officially disagree with ..i am also opposed to a no limits abortion policy but that does not mean i will ever try to impose my views on others...

but that does not mean . . . that i would listen to the church's view on it ..i will only listen to what i feel that jesus would have wanted us to stand for ... i agree with you in that being catholic is not about follwing every order of the church .. its about deciding for yourself and acting on defending what is right and standing up against what will cause harm or inequality against anyone ....

indeed i feel that most catholics are actually very tolerant, open and accepting people once they have discovered both sides to the story ...

This has been a very interesting discussion. Where it has ended up for me, personally, with my mish-mash of beliefs, faiths and stargazing, is the question: WHO makes the judgement about when LIFE begins, or is allowed to continue?

If the warring factions can agree that the demarcation between 'ACCEPTABLE' and 'UNACCEPTABLE' balances the determination about at which stage of development, life does in fact survive....

How far developed in the process between the meeting of two zygotes, and a fully developed baby, are you...

When you say: 'Yes, I feel the spark of life, of awareness'?

...Before 'SOMEONE' decides they can make a judgment ...as to whether you continue your progress toward life ...whether you live or die!!!

Or, at our level in the complex mechanism of the universe; Is our input so deeply buried in the history of evolution, and so by dilution, inconsequential, irrelevant, so as to make our whole existence, something... ultimately... futile???

Who will pick up the scythe?

Which organisation world wide owns the most property? The Catholic Church. Perhaps if the Church really had a commitment to eliminating poverty it should sell some of its property and set up trusts for education and small businesses to help people?

I love all the comments here from people outraged that Christians want to "ram their morality down our throats". If you don't like what the Christians are saying, turn the page or change the channel. This is the EXACT thing Christians are told to do, time after time, when liberals try and ram THEIR morals on society, such as allowing Steve Crow to parade his strumpets down the main street in broad daylight, or air filthy, blasphemous TV like the "Bloody Mary" episode of South Park. Typical liberals - they want their cake and eat it too.