All Blacks tour: Nailing down the loosies

Last updated 13:31 02/10/2008

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Where the heat will focus in 2008 Confronting Henry's greatest challenges Excuses that made us cringe The best man to back up Robbie Under-rated, but over-achieving Who can stop another ABs Slam? All Blacks tour: Nailing down the loosies Putting their hands up for the All Blacks Dingo Deans - cunning plan or lost cause? Where the ABs need to pick up their game

Opportunity knocks in the loose forwards department as the All Blacks selectors mull over their options for the coming tour. RugbyHeaven co-editors Marc Hinton and Duncan Johnstone sift through their contenders.

In a touring squad of 35 the selectors are certain to opt for at least seven loose forwards.

Given their loyalty to the original back row mix who eventually saw them through the Tri-Nations and helped retain the Bledisloe Cup, that probably means there is room for two other faces in this key area.

There's an obvious need for some sort of decent cover at openside behind Richie McCaw and a young blindside-No 8 appeals on a tour where there will be chances to work new faces into the All Blacks routines.

Here's who we'd like to see enter the frame.

 

BLINDSIDE/NO 8 - Marc Hinton

This shapes as an intriguing selection call for the three wise men if indeed it comes down to a straight decision between Waikato's outstanding prospect Liam Messam and Canterbury's Reuben Thorne clone Kieran Read.

Both are fairy useful performers who have their supporters, but it could be that there is only room for one of them in the 35-man touring troupe to head on the elongated November tour.

With 35 players, Graham Henry will take seven, maybe eight, loose forwards for the six-match trek. If he extends that to eight there may yet be room for both Messam and Read. Or if either Adam Thomson or Sione Lauaki amongst the incumbents is judged surplus to requirements, likewise they could both be squeezed in.

But presuming Henry and Steve Hansen stay loyal to their Tri-Nations loosies Richie McCaw, Rodney So'oialo, Jerome Kaino, Thomson and Lauaki, that leaves two spots minimum.

One will be a backup openside, which will probably come down to a tossup between experience (Daniel Braid) and a look to the future (Tanerau Latimer). Neither have made what you might call compelling cases, and there is some justification in saying the position as Richie McCaw's openside understudy is one of the All Blacks' real problem areas.

But it's across the other side of the scrum where we're focusing, where there will be at least one callup who can slot in at blindside or No 8 at a pinch. Both Messam and Read have these capabilities.

So who would be the best bet if indeed there is room for just one of these two emerging talents?

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My view is Messam has to get the tour, simply because of the extraordinary range of talents the man possesses. Plus he's got a heck of an upside I reckon when it comes to the international game.

If we needed any confirmation of the ability of the man, look no further than the 24-year-old's three-try performance against Otago in last weekend's Air NZ Cup action. He produced the full gamut of skills in a virtuoso display, including a run from 50m out that showcased the outstanding foot speed he possesses.

Granted, Messam didn't have the best of Super 14 campaigns earlier this year, but I like the way he's put his head down, got stuck into things with Waikato and led a pretty average outfit in commanding fashion.

To me, Messam has the X-factor that could make him an effective test player. He's incredibly fit, works hard at his game and his physical preparation and has all the skills a loose forward could ask for.

It's time to give him a tour, and a match or two in the black jersey, so as he can stake his claim to be part of the mix heading into 2011.

Read, too, is a quality player, but more in the mould of a hard-working loosie who takes care of the basics first. He's another Thorne, though to be fair perhaps offers a few more visible attributes than his yeoman predecessor.

But, I wonder, has Read really kicked on after a Super 14 campaign that had him right in the All Black mix? Like Messam he's taken on the leadership of his province, but I don't get the sense that he's taken his game forward at all.

Still, these two remain well clear of other potential challengers for tour spots and, who knows, maybe Henry will take them both and render the debate meaningless.

But for me right now Messam is a player I'd love to see take the step up. I've always seen him as a figure at the same level as his Mooloo mate Richard Kahui, and we all know what he's achieved given the chance in 2008.

 

OPENSIDE - Duncan Johnstone

It's strange to label No 7 as a problem position for the All Blacks when you have the unparalleled Richie McCaw running around in that famous number.

But it really is all or nothing at the moment for New Zealand in this key position.

All as in the best in the world in the form of McCaw and nothing as in the cupboard is pretty much bare when he's not there.

And New Zealand discovered that to their detriment when McCaw was injured for the early stages of the Tri-Nations.

In his absence the All Blacks opted for makeshift cover in the form of Rodney So'oialo and Adam Thomson before eventually calling up a struggling Daniel Braid. They lost consecutive tests to the Boks and Wallabies and it's no coincidence that the rocky campaign was only righted when McCaw returned to lead the side to glory.

So now the selectors must decide what they do with this grand opportunity - a grand slam tour topped up by a Bledisloe Cup test and a midweek fixture against Munster.

Clearly there is the chance to bring in some specialist cover for what is arguably the most important position on the field in terms of ball supply.

Looking around the provinces there aren't too many options.

Do they go back to Braid who had his test career resurrected after an absence of more than four years but immediately ran out of steam in Sydney?

Do they take the chance to develop an undoubted talent like Bay of Plenty's Tanerau Latimer?

Do they opt for something in between and elevate a raw-boned customer like Scott Waldrom whose injury-stalled career has spluttered to life with both the Hurricanes and Taranaki this season.

Or do they look for a utility character like Canterbury's Kieran Read.

Firstly I believe this position is too crucial not to have a specialist involved. We've already seen this year that at test level it's not a job for a makeshift man. So Read will have to take his chances battling the crowded scene at blindside.

Braid's a proven talent at Super 14 level but like many in this position in recent years he's had no real chances to go up a notch because of McCaw's mortgage on the black jersey.

Sadly time has ticked away on him in a position as brutal as this and the first signs of that have emerged in a difficult year for him when he has been plagued by injuries.

As a long-term prospect it's hard to see him going through to the 2011 World Cup and the developmental nature of this tour means he's out of my equation.

The same goes for Waldrom. Big and strong and with deceptive speed, I'm afraid that at 28 this has all come a bit too late for a player who has made a remarkable recovery from a serious foot injury to even be playing at all.

Which leaves Latimer, an out and out No 7 whose game is really starting to come of age.

Just 22 he's already got three years of Super 14 play under his belt and he's learned from some of the best.

He was McCaw's backup at the Crusaders in 2006. He filled the same role for Marty Holah at the Chiefs last year. And when Holah finally tired of battling McCaw for the All Blacks spot and headed off to Wales Latimer stepped up this year to eventually take control of the openside role in a Chiefs squad stacked full of loose forward talent.

A former New Zealand sevens player, Latimer has all the attributes as he also showed with his work for New Zealand Maori this year.

When McCaw was injured there was plenty of talk about Latimer being called up in July. The selectors even made a special trip to wtch him in action for the Maori side in the Pacific Nations Cup.

The All Blacks selectors sensibly resisted that temptation given the circumstances of thrusting him straight into the hurly burly of the Tri-Nations.

But surely now is the hour.

Latimer certainly wouldn't disgrace himself against the Scots and he would be better than anything Munster will throw at the All Blacks.

And, injury problems aside, that's all that will be required - McCaw can do the rest.

Who would you like to see brought into the loose forward mix for the end of year tour? Have your say below.

- © Fairfax NZ News

44 comments
Mardun   #44   05:26 pm Jan 28 2009

Latimer and Messam should be picked.Sorry for Scottie Waldrom I think he had a good s14 this year and will not let AB's down.But the Cartel should be looking at the future.Of the topic also think that Hoseah Gear should be on eoyt.

Vince   #43   05:26 pm Jan 28 2009

I think Waldrom is what we need, waldrom was mcCaws understudy at the crusaders a few years back, and also was a dominant name in the NZ 7's scene, and only injury has kept him back, and now he is back, lets give him a shot, shows alot of character coming back from injury so strong, and we all know what Mr Henry thinks of character.

david williams   #42   05:26 pm Jan 28 2009

i fell that tim bateman should be up 4 ab selection

Shaun Fay   #41   05:26 pm Jan 28 2009

Hi from the I in S.

Loving the rugby over here in Sydney. I'm a canterbury boy who lives close to Manly... Rugby is great and it's at such a great time here in Australia. Bit of golf in the morning, kids/work round the house afternoon, first beer at 5.30. Perfect. But go easy on the loosies boys we need them for Hong Kong. McCaw was brilliant tonight.

Cheers The i in s

stewart edmonds   #40   05:26 pm Jan 28 2009

messam shud b trained up at openside as he has the skill;lats 2 b mcall backup;read concetrate at 7n8 all 3 must b taken on tour 4 our world cup chances;

Riqqi   #39   05:26 pm Jan 28 2009

Read is the best loosie in the country outside the current ABs first choices, without a doubt. He proved himself at the highest level he has been given a shot at. Kaino has been my standout player for the ABs, however there is no real back-up for him either, nor for Rodney. Hence specialists in each position need to be picked. I still can't quite grasp why Thompson and pathetic Lauaki are so in favour with the ABs topdogs! Word has it that Lauaki will go on tour (must be a joke). Thompson I would give another shot (but definitely not Lauaki) along with Read and Latimer. I don't see any real back-up to Rodney's jumper in the country at the moment, hence I would select a development player to go on tour, someone like Vito to develop into a genuine 8. Messam has really been dissapointing during his whole career and never really achieved his full potential, but I put that down to a lack in focus. He should stick to the blindside and up his work-rate and defense and prove himself should he go. Therefore my 7 loosies would be McCaw, So'oialo, Kaino, Latimer, Read, Messam and Vito.

Why only 4 midfielders and not 5, the extra one covering fist five? I would still give Brett a shot, he has been knocking on the door since 2007. The long tour schedule demands an extra number 10 and 12, hence Brett will ideal. I can't see Carter and Nonu playing each week, hence a Donald Brett inside channel? Looks promising to me, with Kahui the back-up 13. He is not a wing, doesn't have the pace and to be honest during his stint on the wing I never saw his so-called kicking game. He is a much better midfield defender and distributor, and can bust a tackle.

Justin   #38   05:26 pm Jan 28 2009

Messam is over-rated. He's been lauded by the northern scribes for years without actually doing anything. The fact that some people tout him as a centre demonstrates the truth: he has no position in rugby that he excels at, especially the loosies. Too slow and laboured for openside, too short and loose for blindside and too powerless for No 8. He's one of those blokes who runs around in open play impressing people without actually showing any position prowess, he lacks the ability to play a decent, structured game. He's visible for the Chiefs and Mooloos when they're playing headless chook rugby, but that doesn't win S14 titles and doesn't win Test matches. He's much the same as Thompson, looks good playing touch rugby with his visibility but lacks anything in genuine tight play suitable for the role low brows adore putting him forward for, he's a nowhere man.

Bruce D   #37   05:26 pm Jan 28 2009

Latimer had his chance when they watched him play against japan this year for the maori team and he did nothing, They've got to go on form and not just worry about bringing the young ones through so they must take Messam as 6 and Waldrom as 7 cover..

kobe   #36   05:26 pm Jan 28 2009

serge lilo as an out and out openside.

darren   #35   05:26 pm Jan 28 2009

Come on. I'm hearing alot of talk about Messams potential, but seeing little in the way of results. He is an up and down player who struggles at time with the hard work. Needs more time to be an effective test player.

Read is getting a deservice by being labelled the Rueben Thorne clone. He is actually alot better, and has lead Canterbury extremely well this year.

And Latimer should go. Lilo might be pushing him though.


Show 1-34 of 44 comments
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